>> you're talking about karl rove? >> i'm talking about karl rove. >> that is, it seems to me, john heilemann, a good question to ask. you go to karl rove, a guy that just got pasted in this last election. i know karl, i like karl. >> part of the past 20 years. >> he got pasted, and also some conservatives brought up, he was part of the bush administration that people like peg -- i'll say it peggy noonan, myself, others think destroyed the conservative movement by spending us into record debt. >> and you're seeing, you know, the immediate reaction among some parts of the conservative movement, parts of the tea party, more populist part of the party, attacking the group, saying that he's the karl rove and his allies, they have a bad record to run on and that they're deviating from the principles of true conservatism and they want to back sellouts. i think the main thing you're going to see over the course of this next cycle is a further deepening of the schism between the two kind of pieces of the republican party. the